Q&答:Caffeine首席执行官Ben Keighran谈论以粉丝为中心的利基体育广播

Caffeine is a well-funded, 更新的直播平台，以粉丝为中心, niche content for interactive viewing. 目前，该平台的用户已超过4000万, 其内容主要由长尾和地方体育节目组成. 自2016年以来已融资2.62亿美元, 咖啡因正在成为“你在其他地方找不到的运动”的目的地.”

Nadine Krefetz: 重要的事情先说:你是谁，你是做什么的?

Ben Keighran: I’m the founder and CEO of Caf­feine. 我是一名技术专家，曾创办过几家不同类型的初创公司. 我在20多岁的时候创建了一家公司(我现在41岁了)，后来被苹果收购了. 它成为了App Store和iTunes的基础元素. While I was there, I was responsible for the operating system and first-party apps for Apple TV.

At Apple, I learned a lot about the commer­cial business of TV and live broadcasting and television. I wanted to build a next-generation live broadcasting network somewhat similar to Twitch, but for all of live TV. I wanted to ex­plore new technology and new business mod­els and see if we could build a whole network for the next generation that might have a bil­lion people on it one day.

Krefetz: Is it working?

Keighran: In the last 12–18 months, 我们的月活跃用户从300万增加到4000多万, 每月平均观看时间为38分钟.

Krefetz: What’s your business model?

Keighran: We have a free-to-watch live-stream­ing service for niche sports (not the top 100 sports like NFL and NBA). 我们通过我们的平台为这些体育联盟提供了大量的分销渠道. They are able to reach more people than they can when they go on YouTube and other places.

我们免费获取内容，并免费分发. We monetize through pre-roll advertising. 我们有节目网络和直销业务. 我们与这些体育组织分享收入. 我们已经开始添加patreon类型的功能，你可以订阅, or in some cases, 为这些创作者提供的特殊内容进行应用内购买.

咖啡因的创造者可以是一个独立的个体, but it’s most likely an X Games, World Surf League, Ball Is Life, or someone along those lines. 所以，免费观看服务，非独家内容.

Caffeine的合作伙伴包括许多体育联盟.

Krefetz: How much money did you get and from whom?

Keighran: 自2016年以来，我们已经从包括Andreessen Horowitz在内的投资者那里筹集了2.62亿美元, Greylock, Fox, Sanabil Investments, Cox En­terprises, Disney, Riot Games, and more.

Krefetz: How do you attract viewers?

Keighran: 我们通过体育迷访问的网站网络分发内容. When fans see content through our player, 他们可以通过我们的网站和应用程序创建一个帐户, follow creators, get notified when they go live, 并通过应用内购买来支持创作者.

Krefetz: How many sports partners do you have?

Keighran: 我们有超过50个活跃的合作伙伴提供当季内容, whether as live events, recorded events, or podcasts about re­cent sports events.

Krefetz: How do users find and view the content?

Keighran: Leagues have profiles on Caffeine, 当联赛的新内容上线时，哪些球迷可以关注并得到通知. And users view it in our app.

Krefetz: What makes Caffeine different?

Keighran: We’re providing a new experience and a home that brings all kinds of content and fans together. The hook is discovery. 如果你看看YouTube上的体育联盟，你会发现观看人数在下降. 世界各地都有不同的体育联盟，有特定的受众, and they can’t get discovered anymore. 我们正在建设家园，并为这些社区提供超级服务. 咖啡因是你在其他任何地方都找不到的运动用品.

Krefetz: 超低延迟对于交互式体育流来说至关重要. How do you achieve it?

Keighran: I started with WebRTC 8 years ago. I believed 190-millisecond latency would create this intimacy in the stream and would start to create a new category for live streaming. It worked for small streamers, up to a few mil­lion users a month, 但它不会从几百万增加到4000万. 当我从福克斯和迪斯尼那里得到很多钱来购买内容时, that allowed us to really scale up and get some incredible results with our streaming tech (see Caffeine CTO Michael Dale’s blog).

2020年，我们成为第一家实时面向10万人的公司. 亚马逊现在只对1万人做过这样的事. 它的运行成本非常高，而且它也不是合适的飞轮.

Krefetz: Are you still running WebRTC?

Keighran: WebRTC 运行起来非常昂贵，并且我们今天的大多数用例都不需要它. 我们在美国各地建立了自己的实时CDN.S.

We’ve also been working with AWS Cloud­Front on low-latency technologies like DASH and low-latency HLS (LL-HLS). We have all these different fallbacks. Some of our streams—depending on the size of live sport that we’re streaming—will get up to 2 million viewers.

We’re going to use LL-HLS or HLS, etc. But if there’s a new community with people on camera that can really take advantage of the interactivity, we’ll come back to WebRTC.

Krefetz: 与其他内容相比，有多少内容是低延迟的?

Keighran: 我们所有的直播流都是低延迟的.

Krefetz: 低延迟的典型块大小是多少?

Keighran: We have 2-second segments. Within that, we deliver parts via LL-HLS and contin­ued HTTP chunk transfer against every frame available in the case of LL-DASH.

Krefetz: What platforms are people viewing on, and how do your viewers break down demographically?

Keighran: 97%的观众通常是在手机上观看720p或1080p. Ninety percent are U.S. viewers, 73% under the age of 35. 我们有一个移动记录观看单一的直播. 我们有一个内容创作者的平均观看时间为260分钟, 拥有成千上万的用户.

Krefetz: 之前，你提到了通过预播放广告实现盈利. 你们现在在做其他广告吗，还是只做前期广告?

Keighran: Just pre-roll, a 15-second pre-roll. It’s one ad before the content. 我们在今年三月开始做广告. Our ad server is SpringServe, 我们有大约10个不同的项目提供者, including Xan­der, The Trade Desk, Unruly, Google Ads, and OneFOX, 这是福克斯的节目网络.

Krefetz: What are your CPMs?

Keighran: CPMs are as high as $17.

Krefetz: The ad load of one ad seems so small.

Keighran: 现在每个月都有数以亿计的视频开始播放, which is growing exponentially. Our fill rate is fairly low, but this is what happens when you first step into these markets—we’re now 6 months into it. 你需要花一点时间来设定CPM的下限. You want it to be a premium service, 这是一种针对手机运动的年轻人群的方法. 我们将做中档和综合品牌交易. 我们已经完成了一些直销交易，我们正在努力开拓这一市场.

Krefetz: 当我访问你的网站时，我没有看到任何广告. 你是在所有视频开头都放广告，还是只在直播内容上放广告?

Keighran: We run ads for live and on-demand video. We minimize ads to encourage deeper social engagement on-platform at this stage of Caffeine’s growth.

Caffeine’s mostly mobile audience stats

Krefetz: Is the advertising targeted or contextual?

Keighran: It’s targeted. We’re using location, designated market area information, platform, and the content partner. 如果他们是注册用户，我们还会查看他们的年龄和性别.

Krefetz: Do you have subscriptions?

Keighran: You can subscribe to a creator. 由于该功能目前处于测试阶段，我们只有少数合作伙伴. 这些个人创作者确实有很多订阅者，因为它是如此的早期. That’ll be another business as we open up into 2024; we want to give sports leagues the options of subscription, base, or pay-per-view too.

Krefetz: There’s research that says certain sports are losing viewers and not getting people to watch their full games.

Keighran: 短格式的点播内容是毫无疑问的. 在这一点上，长篇视频内容并不是最受欢迎的. Jeff Bezos once said he gets involved in ideas where it’s impossible to imagine a certain outcome not being the case. I think it’s impossible to imagine that the type of content we offer—live competitions that ha­ven’t been seen before, 与其他人一起观看——兴奋地看到结果——将会消失. 人类将以某种方式、形状或形式在体育等事物上竞争. 我喜欢现场比赛的原因是它把人们聚集在一起. It could be 10, 10,000, or millions of people with a shared passion for something all viewing it simultaneously.

Krefetz: 对于一个团队或联盟来说，创作者如何为你提供内容?

Keighran: The same way that they send it to YouTube or any other platform that will ingest live streams from people. And we’re using SRT, 这给了我们以不同方式接收不同格式的可变性.

如果需要，我们可以摄取WebRTC，也有一些工具供粉丝使用OBS. 当我第一次开始使用Caffeine时，我想把所有的钱都投入到WebRTC上. 我把盒子放在数据中心的物理位置，然后自己把它们连接起来. OBS didn’t work with WebRTC. We used Windows soft­ware. 现在，OBS和StreamLabs支持我们需要的所有东西.

Krefetz: Do you still run your own CDN?

Keighran: No. 我们与AWS CloudFront有合作关系，我们的视频堆栈位于AWS上.

Krefetz: How do users make purchases on your site? Are you printing your own money?

Keighran: Well, theoretically. People can earn or pay for a centralized virtual currency called Caffeine Gold and use it to purchase virtual items during a show. 这就像去现场看体育比赛，买一件球衣, hat, 或者手机——这是与粉丝互动的东西.

If you’re watching skateboarding, you could buy a 3D skateboard, 它在屏幕上做空翻和旋转. 这是一种在人群中脱颖而出并支持内容的方法. 该项目价值的50%归内容创建者所有, and they can cash it out for real money.

Krefetz: How are these 3D things created?

Keighran: We create them. 现在它只是社区中很小的一部分. 广告是我们赚钱的主要途径, 但是这些交互功能真的很有趣, and people do use them.

A Caffeine content delivery schematic

Krefetz: 那么其他低延迟特性和交互功能呢?

Keighran: 观众可以从镜头后面的人那里得到即时的回应，没有延迟. 我们的实时反应允许粉丝在信息上使用“喜欢”进行投票, and we of­fer fans the ability to purchase “props” and get instant reactions from the creators and fans.

Krefetz: Is it the same with regular live streams?

Keighran: All of our live streams are low laten­cy. For on-demand content, viewers can also leave comments and props to engage with cre­ators and fans.

Krefetz: 这些功能中哪一个最受欢迎?

Keighran: Real-time streaming that generates immediate creator and fan reactions is where we get the majority of our feedback.

Krefetz: 你们如何处理侵犯版权的行为?

Keighran: On-platform, we have a team of mod­erators as well as a few agencies that observe streams on our platform. 我们有自动报告，我们也支持用户报告内容.

Krefetz: 你用的东西都是自己做的吗?

Keighran: Within reason. 我们现在正在用一些开源语言模型做一些人工智能的事情. 我们要么编写平台，要么拼凑平台，才走到这一步.

Krefetz: Usually, the challenge of having built all of the key things is that you have to continue to manage them.

Keighran: Absolutely. The problem with the strat­egy of doing things in their ascendancy is that things haven’t been built for you, 所以你必须建造比你通常需要的更多的东西. 我想说的是，我们可能已经过度旋转，试图建立太多自己的东西. 我认为我们正在找到一个很好的平衡点.

Krefetz: 告诉我更多关于您定制的平台方面的信息.

Keighran: 首先，在摄取端，您可以提供SRT、WebRTC和RTMP. 我们还为人们提供了多种广播方式:WebRTC, LL-HLS, HLS, LL-DASH, and DASH. 如果某种东西大规模依赖于WebRTC，那么咖啡因已经做了10万件事. Drake brought battle rap, 哪一个在比赛期间能获得大量观众的实时投票. 我们提供自动重播和即将到来的指南附加到电子邮件推送通知, 一直到定制道具和虚拟货币.

Battle rap on Caffeine

Krefetz: 我是否可以假设低延迟内容没有任何倒带功能?

Keighran: Correct. 我们目前不提供直播内容的倒带功能.

Krefetz: How is live-to-VOD clipping done?

Keighran: 这对利用FFmpeg层堆栈的AWS lambda - da进行操作. It gen­erates a flat MP4 operating directly against the LL-HLS CMAF stream facilitating live clip­ping up to a second or two from the live edge that has been delivered to the end user.

Krefetz: 在WebRTC中插入广告怎么样?

Keighran: 这就是我们开始使用预摇的部分原因. 我们与WebRTC在插页式广告方面确实有一些能力, although we’ve never done it publicly.

Krefetz: What are some future ideas you can share?

Keighran: I want to take Caffeine internation­al. 我想把它放到有实时网络技术的联网电视上. 我认为当有一天有足够多的VR头显出现时，这将是一个杀手. It will make a phenomenal VR experience.

在后cookie时代，你必须对用户有越来越多的了解. 除了获取人们的信用卡信息, we’re go­ing to want to do subscriptions, pay-per-views, 使用虚拟货币和道具进行应用内购买.

有了实时，你就可以进入博彩和电子商务等领域. 有了人工智能，你可以制作简短的内容高光短片. 我们在苹果公司经常考虑的一件事是, what are the technologies that are in their ascendancy that are going to be really import­ant in the future?

当事件现场直播，人们激情澎湃时, is it better to interrupt them with an interstitial ad and try to direct them to a prod­uct they may want to buy right now? Or is it bet­ter to sell them something in the chat right now that they can use with everybody else that’s there while they’re watching?

我认为在节目开始前放个广告是可以的. 但是一旦我们加入了节目，怎样才能从观众身上赚钱呢? 我想找到合适的平衡，让每个人都能获得合适的体验. 我对品牌虚拟货币很感兴趣.

Krefetz: These unique things are not programmatic.

Keighran: 2024年，我们将组建一支广告销售团队，开展更多直销业务. We’ve tried to work with our investors on what’s the best way to sell all these different ads.

Krefetz: 你看过FAST的分销模式吗?

Keighran: 从把FAST放在咖啡因上的观点来看, 这是我在2024年肯定要做的另一件事.

Krefetz: 你将如何平衡高峰和低谷，使应用程序中总是有一些活动?

Keighran: 我们将在更多的时区引入更多的内容合作伙伴, 我们还将在平台上看到更多的内容直播. 社区中的任何人也可以随时上线.

Krefetz: 公司现在盈利了吗?或者你预计什么时候会盈利?

Keighran: 我们预计到2024年现金流将为正.

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